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A friend on another site used this phrase to describe a relationship that she finally ended.  I think it also applies to us widows and widowers as we venture forth into the world of new relationships.  How do you tell a good frog from a bad frog?  Are you going to try to hang out for Miss or Mr Right as the years are flying by or are you just seeking a reasonably comfortable relationship? Is there someone special out there for all of us?

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At this point, a reasonably comfortable relationship would do! I'm actually at the point of giving up on online dating sites. Email has never been a good mode of communication and I can't seem to get beyond that. I almost met one guy but he totally misinterpreted my email and "dumped" me.

I met Ed thru the old fashioned personal ads and it was so different then! He and I were truly poised to find someone. And while I may think I am once again poised, the guys definitely are not.

I am discouraged but I am holding onto all the other good things happening in my life: job, new and old friends, my weaving, family.

Not sure why you asked this, Sue, but you always do seem to capture my questions before I ask them!

I have had a couple of lunch dates, a few long conversations over coffee and have a friend from the past I talk to on Facebook but that is it, no real encounters that could turn onto something special so I am wondering about that reasonable comfortable relationship rather than looking for the perfect fit. Maybe I will end up a permanent widow who knows, but I would like a companion rather than a lonely existence.

I have plenty of widow friends but no-one close since Ray's illness sent so many of them away.  I met Ray at a country dance, we found we had much in common, eventually dated some, then married.  But those were the days when you did get married and that was 46 years ago so hey! not a reliable guide to future relationships as far as I can see.

I am having the opposite problem.  I am not at all ready for a relationship, but when I reached out to an old friend to tell him my husband had died, he has started to come on way too strong.  I haven't even seen him since I was 20 years old, and no amount of I am middle aged now, I have gained weight, you would not be interested, seems to deter him.  He's talking about soul love already and we haven't even seen each other.  I don't want to hurt him by saying it straight out, I cannot be the person to save you, and I have to think about my children and what is best for them, which is, at this point, no strange man beating down the door.

This may sound crazy, but if and when I'm ready to date I really hope I get a couple of bad frogs to warm up on.  Ones that there is "no way" that I'd have a relationship with.  Sort of like warm up job interviews.  I've been out of the dating world for way too long.

I don't want to be alone the rest of my life, but also don't think I want to get married again.  I value my alone time and independence.

I've had 2 relationships since my husband passed mostly to fill the loneliness. Having someone to do things with and share how my day at work went meant the world to me at first. I wasn't really looking for anything more and thankfully only one of my friends tried to fix me up with someone. Plus I'm just a romantic at heart and I miss not having someone to fuss over!

The first one probably felt like he hit the jackpot because I was a widow with visible means of support and adult children.  We dated on and off several times but the last time was truly the last time, he told me I need to "get over" my late husband!  As if it was as simple as flipping a switch.

The second man was someone I worked with 30 years ago and I thought it might possibly be someone I could marry.  Turns out he was also looking for a woman with money and when I asked him for space he got married within 2 months to another widow! 

Now I don't even care anymore.  I don't really want to be a permanent widow (as someone else put it) but I also value the independence and time alone.  

Bis4betsy, your story reminded me of a good friend, a long time widow who sad she went out with several men who she thought she could marry and when the relationships soured they each had a new girlfriend within a month.   I wonder at times if we just train them for someone else. 

My roses

Interesting comments here re dating.    I realise that  Juniper could be right.  We may need a few bad frogs to practise  dating.  I know I realised that I was in shock, and not capable of response when  I  met a former friend of ours.He gave me a a hug and a kiss on the cheek and I  could not really respond. I am sure he thought I was a cold fish.  I also had online experience where a guy was all over me on the first contact.. and the next day was shouting at me, then said I was beautiful and then shouted again the next day.  This also shocked me.  Many of the men were just not ready for a relationship.  One just kept asking for sex every time.   I also realise that Love is about the only thing that is going to heal me.  I have also learnt that a deep feeling of peace when I am with someone is a good sign.  I asked my Pastor about this and he said that this was a good sign to have.  I have been on 2 dating sites one was an international one.  I do also notice that many men are still angry or  grieving and therefore not capable of making a wise decision.

I have met 2 men with whom I felt at peace.  Currently I have a male friend and we go out for a walk or to a film etc.but it is not a romance.  We have helped each other in some ways and talk on the phone.   Dating is hard going, and has taken a lot of energy for me to do.  Booktime Susan I have noticed that often men want to talk by email but misinterpret what I meant.  I have written back that we need to talk face to face, so that we can get the body language.  Words are not enough.   I have found that persistence is useful. I have persisted where I feel an attraction or sense of peace with a man.  I agree that  a perfect fit is unlikely.  But compassion, caring and willingness to understand is important.  Men though, often want exactly what they had before and make judgements and decisions too quickly.

Love grows over time.... but some want instant attraction and  action.. but this may not work  - at this point in the journey.  They then make a decision that you are not the one... but in fact do not have enough knowledge about you.

Love and  marriage can be different to meeting at 25  or 30 yrs.  Somehow we have to convey and find  a deeper level.

But most of all I think that men who have been widowed or divorced  may need to re- evaluate  the situation and not pick up and drop you along the way... because they  have not realised some of this.  Until we can tear away a lot of our former ideas - we might not be able to make wise judgements about a new companion.  I have noticed that given time, men have changed or seen something different in me.  If I had just walked away - they would have written me off.   I also have been able to tell them how I feel without

holding back.  If  I like them, or feel something special about a quality they have... I will tell them.  This is not on the first date... but I do decide to go for the truth  when I feel it is appropriate.  We cannot afford to waste time, or lose a possible 'love' by dithering!!

My roses

Only1Sue

Have done a lot of  research and  talking with widowed men and a few divorcees.  Many men become so desperate to have a woman in the house that they will find someone in a month.  So if they pick you up and drop you, its off down the path to find another woman.  Men are rushing into  a sort of relationship - not necessarily the right one or the best one... as a way of feeling more normal and less lonely.  In W, Aust.  there is a lot of this going on... and the men quite often get 'stung' later on and regret the decision they made.  They will even take in women who are bedridden or ill and look after them... just to have someone in the house.  But if someone else turns up whom theyare interested in... this then becomes difficult and they find they cannot just toss this first person out.

Then there are the problems which occur when they rush into a relationship and get into financial issues... and find that  later on he has overspent his money on trips etc.  Often the woman has hired a truck and  taken all the furniture etc. before he arrives home.  Often sexual desires have driven men to find a girl friend very fast, after being widowed etc.  but the deeper level of love has not occurred.  3 of these sort of events have occurred where I live. Worse still is that some women were teaching their daughters to do the same thing.

I have been with the same man now for over 2 and a half years. I had been doing the online thing prior to meeting him and it was not going well. I met him totally by accident right after I lost my husband and he waited over two years before he asked me out. Frankly he is pretty wonderful. Really, He has made me feel like myself again. He is handsome, healthy, financially secure on his own, age appropriate, faithful, interested in having a relationship and we have a ton in common. We have future plans for vacations, etc.

So, what's the problem. I doubt very much he will ever want to marry. He was married for 30 years, no kids and while I know there are two sides to every pancake,  it really sounded like he tried everything he could to make this marriage work, but he could not stay married to her. He never trash talks her and still helps her out. I think it shows a good character. We see each other 2-3 times a week and talk or text on days we don't see each other. It is always wonderful. He is always open about what he is doing when he is not with me and he has a very rich full life of friends and hobbies.   I never thought I would remarry or even want to, but this is the man I could. He is a very happy content with his life kind of man and I really don't want to change him. I miss the security of marriage, but then I had that and he died anyway. I have a bunch of friends in their 50's whose marriages are ending in divorce. No guarantees in this life anyway. I would really like this relationship to last until one us dies and I really hope its me this time as I am over this widow crap. He has agreed to this.

A lot of younger people and  people who are still with their loves think I am wasting my time but of course they have no clue. At all. I am turning 60 next month and while I bring a lot to the table, quality men are not breaking down the door. I really miss having that safe feeling marriage gave me. I really do, but I think I will stay where I am. I make a point to keep having my own interests and friends so I don't miss him on the days we are not together. In that respect he is a bit of an inspiration to me with all of the things he does.

Sounds a good plan to me, Paula, there are also a lot of downsides to marriage at our age!
I haven't dated yet- well one coffee date where the man was very nice, but I was literally fidgeting and couldn't wait to get out of there! I've been told that I'll know when I'm ready...I think not yet.

My question continues to be:  "Is there someone special out there for me?"  I have some wonderful older friends and acquaintances but no-one with whom I can laugh and cry and be completely myself.  I do have a Facebook friend (single older male) who I would class as the equivalent of the old pen friend but I rarely see him in person and I know that although we could linger in this phase as long as I want to this is not going to turn into a romance.  I still want someone who wants to see me once or twice a week, loves to be with me and wants to be with me on special occasions.  While I hang on to this other friendship is that going to happen? He is not a kissing frog, more like a documentary about a frog.

only1sue- you made me laugh!  My last relationship with a man (since losing my husband) was more like a documentary.  I didn't want to marry him but it was certainly informative since I've been out of the dating pool for so long.  

I'm right there with you- I would love to have someone to share laughter, crying, and the craziness of my work day with besides my daughter who just rolls her eyes at me!

Paula- I say you have a gem- he waited for 2 years! Nice.  Quality men are not abundant is right.  I seem to be attracting men who are looking for someone to take care of them financially.  I'm over the "widow crap" too.  One of the parents of a kid in my class said- "I just assumed you were divorced."  No, I would still be married if he hadn't died!

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